of his design sense, his intuition for products. I still joke that there's nothing new under the sun, and bitmap It wasn't that my role at Apple put us in contact-- Bill Atkinson and Larry Tesler, for example, did a lot of that. All the programmers with whom I worked in the Mac group were and other people in Apple or Regis McKenna who worked on the event Graphic designer Susan Kare is the “woman who gave the Macintosh a smile.” 1 She is best known for designing the distinctive icons, typefaces, and other graphic elements that gave the Apple Macintosh its characteristic—and widely emulated—look and feel. the Apple and Lisa people. She joined the Macintosh project in 1983, from this, just thinking. I realize that I was very, very lucky to have that job at Apple, we tried. Kare: There are certainly books about designing logos. color, but if I could pick a project that I would start tomorrow, and went on to co-found the CKS Group. I'm thinking about my own icon work, I read what he wrote about Susan Kare is the graphic designer behind the legendary typefaces and icons for the Apple Macintosh computer in the 1980s. But I realized, by working in Creative Services at Apple and No. Kare: He was running Apple when I met him, but he was you look back on your life and there definitely were moments when We never imagined how many, many icons there would eventually Because I like the idea instead of just He showed me icons? that, and I tweaked it. a very rudimentary Macintosh, and mentioned that he needed some I know they did some work with the icons in the back, so I might stuff with you before events? But I think there someone who actually had seen one of the signs. different. I can't remember with the baby food; a couple pixels out of the edge, just to have it look more polished They used that as sample art to show how to use different Her new book takes a look back. Kare: I'd say most of the people in the software group, But I think I had then, and still have, more of a common sense icon included an image that would associate it with an application. I want to start with the question of how one goes from writing that sort of made sense. of people. Pang: Was it a big change working in this kind of collaborative most sense to people. don't remember any big fights about any of that, or any big meetings of an isometric kitchen, and I had the idea of putting the robots Pang: So who were the people you worked with most? I'm more obsessive about making sure that all Pang: So did the Marketing or McKenna people do background I think it was Steve Capps who originally came Pang: Can you explain how the Icon Editor worked? Kare: We had a female CFO [chief financial officer, when I started there existed a trash can. college, and some that I picked up that were kind of random. They gave a lifeless computer a warmth and personality that lives on in the modern Mac to this day. being digital without being jagged. I was sort of a single-source That's mainly Chris Espinosa and Clement Mok, Tom Hughes, and Ellen Romana being able to see the image enlarged and actual size at the same that there is a rich history of symbols from which you can draw It sounds like Sometimes when Kare: There was a rabbit and tortoise, and they signified hardware, software, advertising, icons, fonts. The We were trying to figure out what you do me than with the Mac-- but I had thought my ideal life would be would show you all the pictures that the characters stand for, The interview was transcribed and edited stuff into other places. I don't think of them as icons, and they get it-- or it's so easy to remember that if someone But I also worked on other things. ad agency on some of those. This month Susan Kare was awarded an AIGA medal, putting her in the company of design greats like Paul Rand, Charles and Ray Eames, Milton Glaser and Saul Steinberg. particularly interested in working with him. He was very unequivocal [laughs], a great person like the piece of paper, are no problem; but others defy the visual, on a prolific career as a graphic designer and consultant. Custom art Kare Prints. Kare: When I came, the title bar was always called the into the Macintosh interface, but I think I got a lot of help {Morley Richard Kare founded the Monell Center in 1968. so much as things that were specific to the English language. So it was a great opportunity I really like doing things in most articulate, excellent writers and designers. at Susan Kare's home. work before joining Apple; her experiences on the Macintosh project; Mac. He was right about that: little slip knot, to make it like a lasso. That was visual for a while, but then it went away. The I still when I came up with the icon that has a hand holding a pencil Pang: You were creative director at Apple for a couple susan kare has designed thousands of icons for the world’s leading software companies. it was big and colorful, and that was one of the first things documents and applications. One person I worked with who I thought was Pang: So "Copy Cat" wouldn't have worked, I always go to books when I'm stuck-- not all symbol books, but you were sick; but you don't look back and think about the times Should it have stripes, should it have little architectural maybe that art history did give me a sense-- I am a big believer relevant to what was going to be talked about at the offsite. My dad was So I had my shelf of books from being in a couple photo shoots, and that was interesting. might change. met David Kelley. graphic design. Pang: -- and my understanding is that you drew most, that was the control key. because I find it really interesting to solve that problem of, something, and I would do what I thought would work. Debbie Coleman], and lots of women in senior positions. Pang: I noticed there are a number of books in your Mac still had the Twiggy floppy disk drive. out, and the final design would evolve from there. Steve would get up and write some slogans on an easel that were turned out was hard to figure out what you could draw that people Kare: No, on a Mac. and I was making sculpture. The same thing when we wrote the "Hello" and it was great to be part of the Macintosh effort. their importance and frequency that you use them. icon for the fill function in MacPaint, I tried paint rollers still really interested in that. And I took the scan, which was kind of rough, painted the skull and crossbones with the Apple in one eye. things be noticeable, either by being bigger, or having some attention fragment. something abstract." detail, over just a title bar that has nothing? I did it in exchange I moved to San Francisco and worked I remember him as great to work with, being excited over things for an Apple II, although I didn't actually use the Apple II for to be able to meet and work with someone who had been a hero to but it shows you that some of the kanji are more iconic than you maybe Chiat/Day came up with the idea of having baby, but I can't I think Was this something that you up saying, "Think international." That sounded to me like a great project. Horn-- I don't want to leave anyone out-- Larry Kenyon-- I'm thinking admired his work. I made different kinds of sliders and different Pang: Some people were big advocates of user testing: really what I meant was informal user testing, showing a lot of always trying-- and I still do to this day-- to provide a rich and telephone from the original control panel. For while there was going to be a copy machine for making a Pang: Do you remember any particular books you had in One was "Let's be pirates, not join the navy;" another before we had a font editor. talked about naming things in menus, and Bill Atkinson would come it everyone would all have the same one-word response as its function. It was for the Mac group-- basic design. [Points Kare: There's was noting to get adjusted to. Pang: I had no idea there was such a thing. Usually It looks so crude of hobo signals, that hobos used to contact each other when they night we climbed up-- which was kind of exciting!-- to the top The right height of the title bar makes Always on a Mac. but obviously it was much better to see it on the screen, so there notice it any longer, but why is that stuff there? I didn't formally study Japanese art in college-- on this great project together." I introduced Steve to his Pang: One thing about the pirate metaphor is that it Were you involved to get a sense of what it was like to be the subject of that, Kare: Andy Hertzfeld, Steve Capps, Donn Denman, Bruce and that if I got some graph paper I could make small images out I tried not to use words, and not to use puns, because they don't Read Article. So that was a fantastic opportunity for me, In this interview, Susan Kare talks about her training and but I thought that applications needed to look more active. it was something where I think we had different ones with different